crossroadscastiel:

4persephone:

crossroadscastiel:

4persephone:

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

While I’m not ruling out the possibility that someone else will be a casualty of the fallout that is coming, I am absolutely positive that Dean is going to take himself out— perhaps only symbolically, i.e. losing his humanity, but a death of self is definitely coming for him and it is going to be set off by the implosion between him and Sam.

That’s my take too… this last set of episodes have read like a drawn out hospice stay to me except only Dean knows that’s how it actually ends. Which is horrendous enough already, but the worst of it is I’m all but positive Sam is so busy being worried and frustrated by what he sees as Dean stubborn refusal to change/share his trouble that he basically has no clue as to what Dean intends. He’s only going to recognize the suicide note for what it was in hindsight.

I’m just wondering if when this does all come to a head, is this going to result in Sam risking his life for Dean? I feel like again and again it is being uttered “he wouldn’t trade his life for yours” when we know he actually would if that came about in a way that didn’t violate his agency. But I do wonder how that can be achieved in a manner that isn’t taking 10 steps backwards right back into the co-dependency, when that is clearly something they’re not aiming to do….

I am admittedly uncertain how this will end, but I do know something has to give. Something has to happen to get them from Alex + Mama vamp, to Alex and Jody.

Maybe in the end it will come down to a choice. It will come down to Sam letting Dean choose what he wants. Maybe if he shows Dean that he can choose what is best for him, Dean will be able to see that Sam is capable of choosing what is best for himself.

I think Dean isn’t going to be saved by Sam. It’s going to be Cas. But not before Sam realizes his own erasure from existence was Dean’s intent. And then they’ll be next Season with Dean still depressed and possibly still suicidal/mourning Cas/doing penance, with Sam along for the ride trying to figure out where they had a disconnect a d how to fix it, probably with the reinforcements he didn’t know he needed this season.

Well, same…if it comes down to a scenario where one or the other is trying to break through to him, it will definitely be Cas. But I’m more just wondering right now where Sam and Dean will end up at the end of this season and how all of that will tie together. Like…I wonder if there is going to be a huge blowup between them (reminiscent of When The Levee Breaks), or if there will be some failed attempt on Sam’s part at resolution…a resolution he obviously will not get because Act 2…

I actually think we might get the opposite… no fight at all, just Sam waking up to an empty bunker, Dean on his way to finish Cain or Abbaddon and what amounts to Dear John letter… ie thanks for letting me have a few last months of your company. Try and have that life you said you always wanted.

crossroadscastiel:

4persephone:

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

While I’m not ruling out the possibility that someone else will be a casualty of the fallout that is coming, I am absolutely positive that Dean is going to take himself out— perhaps only symbolically, i.e. losing his humanity, but a death of self is definitely coming for him and it is going to be set off by the implosion between him and Sam.

That’s my take too… this last set of episodes have read like a drawn out hospice stay to me except only Dean knows that’s how it actually ends. Which is horrendous enough already, but the worst of it is I’m all but positive Sam is so busy being worried and frustrated by what he sees as Dean stubborn refusal to change/share his trouble that he basically has no clue as to what Dean intends. He’s only going to recognize the suicide note for what it was in hindsight.

I’m just wondering if when this does all come to a head, is this going to result in Sam risking his life for Dean? I feel like again and again it is being uttered “he wouldn’t trade his life for yours” when we know he actually would if that came about in a way that didn’t violate his agency. But I do wonder how that can be achieved in a manner that isn’t taking 10 steps backwards right back into the co-dependency, when that is clearly something they’re not aiming to do….

I am admittedly uncertain how this will end, but I do know something has to give. Something has to happen to get them from Alex + Mama vamp, to Alex and Jody.

Maybe in the end it will come down to a choice. It will come down to Sam letting Dean choose what he wants. Maybe if he shows Dean that he can choose what is best for him, Dean will be able to see that Sam is capable of choosing what is best for himself.

I think Dean isn’t going to be saved by Sam. It’s going to be Cas. But not before Sam realizes his own erasure from existence was Dean’s intent. And then they’ll be next Season with Dean still depressed and possibly still suicidal/mourning Cas/doing penance, with Sam along for the ride trying to figure out where they had a disconnect a d how to fix it, probably with the reinforcements he didn’t know he needed this season.

carnilia:

4persephone:

You know for all the parallels we see between Dean and Momma this episode and how its supposed to illustrate the toxic nature of Dean’s interactions with Sam, it’s this scene in particular that rips the heart of me. Because this demonstrates another parallel relationship.

This is Dean coming for Sam. Dean protecting a Sam that’s under threat. Dean, in all his messed up world concept doing the best he can to love his brother and keep him from further harm, even though he believes that his entire existence is fundamentally offensive and unacceptable to Sam. Even though he believes and has apparently accepted that in similar situations he’s going to have to rescue himself or die alone…because the relationship is not two way in Dean’s perception…his brothers’ protection and returned approval and acceptance of Dean as family entitled to the things that position implies is contingent on Dean meeting a standard he just can’t seem to reach.

And that dynamic….that promise of devotion without reciprocation? The acknowledgement his life is a tool to be used for the others good but not a thing deserving protection as a result? We’ve seen Dean in this kind of relationship before. With John Winchester.

Sam may not know it but he’s now in a relationship where his brother is relating to him in the same way he related to his dad… accepting himself as something inadequate.. a useful tool.

This, to Dean is just the reality of family. The way love works for people like him apparently.

OH MY GOD

Hey its not like I like the realization, but I can’t not see it. I just don’t know how Sam will cope if he evers ‘gets it’ too.

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

While I’m not ruling out the possibility that someone else will be a casualty of the fallout that is coming, I am absolutely positive that Dean is going to take himself out— perhaps only symbolically, i.e. losing his humanity, but a death of self is definitely coming for him and it is going to be set off by the implosion between him and Sam.

That’s my take too… this last set of episodes have read like a drawn out hospice stay to me except only Dean knows that’s how it actually ends. Which is horrendous enough already, but the worst of it is I’m all but positive Sam is so busy being worried and frustrated by what he sees as Dean stubborn refusal to change/share his trouble that he basically has no clue as to what Dean intends. He’s only going to recognize the suicide note for what it was in hindsight.

Oh, man, I know right?! And I am so frustrated with both of them (but in a “this show is making me feEL THINGS” way, not a “this show is terrible” way) for continuing to dig themselves deeper into this shit by refusing to communicate. Like, it absolutely makes sense for their characters. Dean has always been hesitant at best to talk about his feelings and problems with Sam, and that gets worse in correlation with how bad he feels. Then there’s Sam, who in the beginning was always trying to talk about his feelings or get Dean to talk about his, but he was rebuffed and shut down so many times that he just got progressively worse at it as he got older, instead of getting better at it.

And I’m just sitting here writhing around like yes yes show me the story of how damaging it can be when you can’t speak your heart to the ones you love and it tears you apart until you can learn to talk to each other dO ITTTTTTT.

They don’t just need to talk they need to talk with a mediator and Dean to Sam translator… because they have already wounded each other deeply unintentionally through miscommunication, and that only further breaks the trust and thickens the walls between them.

Total agreement.

On the bright side I am fairly sure Cas can sort through their mess given the chance. I just feel bad the poor dude’s got to deal with so much shit unsupported. Hence my staunch belief they need to bring real Gabriel back. His little bro deserves reinforcements.

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

While I’m not ruling out the possibility that someone else will be a casualty of the fallout that is coming, I am absolutely positive that Dean is going to take himself out— perhaps only symbolically, i.e. losing his humanity, but a death of self is definitely coming for him and it is going to be set off by the implosion between him and Sam.

That’s my take too… this last set of episodes have read like a drawn out hospice stay to me except only Dean knows that’s how it actually ends. Which is horrendous enough already, but the worst of it is I’m all but positive Sam is so busy being worried and frustrated by what he sees as Dean stubborn refusal to change/share his trouble that he basically has no clue as to what Dean intends. He’s only going to recognize the suicide note for what it was in hindsight.

Oh, man, I know right?! And I am so frustrated with both of them (but in a “this show is making me feEL THINGS” way, not a “this show is terrible” way) for continuing to dig themselves deeper into this shit by refusing to communicate. Like, it absolutely makes sense for their characters. Dean has always been hesitant at best to talk about his feelings and problems with Sam, and that gets worse in correlation with how bad he feels. Then there’s Sam, who in the beginning was always trying to talk about his feelings or get Dean to talk about his, but he was rebuffed and shut down so many times that he just got progressively worse at it as he got older, instead of getting better at it.

And I’m just sitting here writhing around like yes yes show me the story of how damaging it can be when you can’t speak your heart to the ones you love and it tears you apart until you can learn to talk to each other dO ITTTTTTT.

They don’t just need to talk they need to talk with a mediator and Dean to Sam translator… because they have already wounded each other deeply unintentionally through miscommunication, and that only further breaks the trust and thickens the walls between them.

carnilia:

4persephone:

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

While I’m not ruling out the possibility that someone else will be a casualty of the fallout that is coming, I am absolutely positive that Dean is going to take himself out— perhaps only symbolically, i.e. losing his humanity, but a death of self is definitely coming for him and it is going to be set off by the implosion between him and Sam.

That’s my take too… this last set of episodes have read like a drawn out hospice stay to me except only Dean knows that’s how it actually ends. Which is horrendous enough already, but the worst of it is I’m all but positive Sam is so busy being worried and frustrated by what he sees as Dean stubborn refusal to change/share his trouble that he basically has no clue as to what Dean intends. He’s only going to recognize the suicide note for what it was in hindsight.

carnilia:

Ooooohhh shit’s gonna go down  it is coMING

Yes but the question in my case is will the casualty when the tower of cards falls be someone else, or will Dean simply take out himself?

deathbycoldopen:

So if we want to talk parallels, Dean is paralleling Alex- held captive by toxic familial bonds that she doesn’t know how to live without, wanting humanity but feeling bound to the monstrous and feeling guilty because of it, wanting to escape but not wanting to disappoint…

You know for all the parallels we see between Dean and Momma this episode and how its supposed to illustrate the toxic nature of Dean’s interactions with Sam, it’s this scene in particular that rips the heart of me. Because this demonstrates another parallel relationship.

This is Dean coming for Sam. Dean protecting a Sam that’s under threat. Dean, in all his messed up world concept doing the best he can to love his brother and keep him from further harm, even though he believes that his entire existence is fundamentally offensive and unacceptable to Sam. Even though he believes and has apparently accepted that in similar situations he’s going to have to rescue himself or die alone…because the relationship is not two way in Dean’s perception…his brothers’ protection and returned approval and acceptance of Dean as family entitled to the things that position implies is contingent on Dean meeting a standard he just can’t seem to reach.

And that dynamic….that promise of devotion without reciprocation? The acknowledgement his life is a tool to be used for the others good but not a thing deserving protection as a result? We’ve seen Dean in this kind of relationship before. With John Winchester.

Sam may not know it but he’s now in a relationship where his brother is relating to him in the same way he related to his dad… accepting himself as something inadequate.. a useful tool.

This, to Dean is just the reality of family. The way love works for people like him apparently.